May 18, 2012 Update
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***Here’s SEGOB’s latest information update on the Reglamento process. It includes options for public comments until June 29, 2012. (Hint: no Reglamento on the near horizon.)
http://207.248.177.30/mir/formatos/defaultView.aspx?SubmitID=322621
The webpage does however reference a pdf document of Mexico’s 2011 Immigration statistics, which seems more interesting than the main page. e.g. Merida logged about 47,500 entries by foreigners in 2011 (compared to 4.7 million entering Cancun):
2011 Mexican Immigration Statistics ***
=============================================
The web is abuzz with sketchy information about the new Ley de Migración. President Calderon signed it into law on May 24, 2011, along with several official blurbs published in the Mexican Government’s Diario Official.
The main focus of the new Ley de Migración is clearly directed towards improving protections and documenting protections and rules targeted to migrants from Belize, Guatamala, Honduras, etc as they traverse Mexico.
This post is just a preliminary report on the aspects that affect expats, because even though the Ley de Migracion was published today, the associated regulations with specific requirements (El Reglamento) for the new Immigration law have not yet been published. This means that INM has no procedures in place yet for how to apply the new law, nor do they have instructions for issuing the new “Tarjeta de Residencia” cards.
The new law has bundles of changes affecting ex-pats that dwarf last May’s changes.
LEY DE MIGRACION PARA MEXICO
Dec. 22 Update: There are reports from INM offices around Mexico that the New INM Law will begin implementation on Jan 2. 2012. There are even reports that INM staff have been attending special training sessions on the new Reglamentos this past month. Hopefully, the training will pay-off, making a smooth transition.
For starters, here’s a partial list of some of the new interesting twists:
No more FM2′s or FM3′s, no more stand-alone Non-Inmigrante & Inmigrante categories, and there’s a tweaked Inmigrado category. Tourists and other Visitors descriptions have not changed much.
Instead of the old “Inmigrante” & “No Inmigrante” (FM’2 & FM3′s), there are 4 new categories:
“Visitante“: 6 Types: Non-Working Visitors (tourist), Working Visitors, and Visitors for Adoptions, Humanitarian, etc. 180 day limit. See Chapter 2, Article 52, Items I – VI of the Law for descriptions of all 6 types.
“Residente Temporal“: Covers the old “No Inmigrante” (old FM3) , 4 year limit per visa, Work Permit possible, Leave and Re-enter as many times as desired. This also seems to include the old “Inmigrante” FM2 “Rentistas” ***
See Chapter 2, Article 52, Item VII
“Residente Temporal Estudiante“: Covers Student Studies, Research, Training, including working on university degrees.
See Chapter 2, Article 52, Item VIII
“Residente Permanente“: Several types: Covers the old “Inmigrado” and a few special “No Inmigrantes” (the old FM3s for asylum seekers & refugees ), and it appears to cover working “Inmigrantes”**. It allows indefinite stays, no need to renew, and includes the right to work.
See Chapter 2, Article 52, Item IX
and Transitorios, Sexto, I – VI (see more below)**
* * * *
Other Items Affecting Ex-Pats:
“Article 53. Visitors, except those for humanitarian reasons and those who have links with Mexican or regular resident alien in Mexico, can not change status of residence and will have to leave the country at the end of the period of stay authorized.“
Various immigration experts from around Mexico are taking this clause at face value, meaning Tourists & Visitors will not be allowed to change their residency status (to Residente Temporal or Residente Permanente) while they are in Mexico, and must leave the country at the end of their 180 days, under the new law. This position has been confirmed by a report on Mexconnect:
“…a top immigration lawyer (says) that it is true that we can no longer change our “tourist” to “working” without leaving the country.” Mexconnect Forum
This is the first reported step of INM implementing the sections of the New Law that apply to expats. Let’s hope they further modify or clarify this policy in INM’s upcoming yet-to-be-released new Regulations (El Reglamento) to describe how expats can begin the Residency Application process by applying online before they travel or apply at their Mexican Consulates, and then continue their applications within 30 days of entering Mexico?
Permanent residency can be granted after just 4 years of Temporary Residency.
Permanent residency can also be granted after 2 years of marriage or common law relationship with Mexican citizen, (with such marriage also recognized by the Mexican Government by successfully registering a foreign marriage with your Registro Civil). Such Permanent Residency also depends on the applicant successfully completing 2 years of Temporary Residency (concurrent with the marriage).
Article 55, Item II
Permanent residency can also be granted to concubines after 2 years of Mexican bliss (as a part of the 2 years of Temporary Residency).
Article 55, Item III
Permanent residency can be awarded with less than 4 years of residency, if the applicant qualifies under the new Points System.
Article 57
There will be new ID cards, called “Tarjeta de Residencia” (as “Temporal” or “Permanente”).
Article 28, Item XXVIII
Mexico will also introduce a new Points System for permanent resident applicants who would like to be granted residency before the standard 4 year temporary residency requirements. The Points can be awarded based on level of education, work experience, skills in areas related to the development of science and technology, international surveys, and the skills to develop activities that are required by Mexico. Article 57, Item II.
Since it took nearly a month for local and regional INM offices to digest and implement the far-less-dramatic May 2010 changes, and some of last years immigration policy changes were not fully worked out until the following August, we suspect that it may take another 6 months before most of the dust settles on this round of changes. This would fit with the new law’s requirement that the INM issue implementing regulations within 180 days from the May 25, 2011 publication of the Law.
There have been no formal announcements yet of when the new changes will take effect, but in the meantime the Transitorios section (described below), should govern INM processing of new applications filed after May 25. All current applications and renewals filed before May 26 fall under the old rules, just like they did with applications and renewals filed before the May 2010 changes. All current Inmigrado and No Inmigrado visas (FM2′s &FM3′s) will remain valid until their expiration dates (see your “Vencimiento” on page 7 of FM2′s = Fecha de Caucidad), and people holding current FM2′s and FM3′s will only have to comply with the new rules when they apply for renewals under the new system.
In addition to the official Gob. de Mexico link supplied above, they also have a copy of the same new law at this website:
New LEY DE MIGRACION PARA MEXICO in Spanish
We offer both links, because El Gobierno de México regularly and abruptly shuts down some their new webpages.
Our Crack Legal Staff
The web version of the new law is 25 pages long, which means it will take some time for the legal beagles to sniff-out all the implications.
* * * *
Additional information on how the new categories line up with parts of the old categories:
The Diario Oficial website has been updated and is up and running. The Transitorios section (listed after Article 162) govern the period between May 26 and whenever INM issues and implements the new regulations.
On the issue of “Permanente Residente” / old “Inmigrado”, the new law’s Transitorio section reads:
After Article 162: “Transitorios, Sexto: VI. Los extranjeros que hayan obtenido la calidad migratoria de inmigrado, se equipararán al Residente permanente. “
This translates to:
” VI. Foreigners who have obtained the immigration status of “inmigrado”, are deemed equivalent to Permanent Resident status. “
Continuing on the issue of “Permanente Residente” / and some “No Inmigrantes” (some of the old FM3s), the new law reads:
After Article 162: “Transitorios, Sexto: IV. Los extranjeros que hayan obtenido la calidad migratoria de No inmigrante, dentro las características de asilado político y refugiado, se equipararán al Residente permanente;
This translates to:
“IV. Foreigners who have obtained the immigration status of “No inmigrante” (old FM3), who meet the characteristics of political asylum and refugees, are deemed equivalent to Permanent Resident status.”
Going to the issue of “Temporal Residente” / some “Inmigrantes” (some old FM2s, including “Rentista”(?) ), the new law reads:
***After Article 162: “Transitorios, Sexto: V. Los extranjeros que hayan obtenido la calidad migratoria de Inmigrante, dentro las características de rentista, inversionista, profesional, cargo de confianza, científico, técnico, familiar, artista y deportista o asimilados, se equipararán al Residente temporal, “
This translates to:
“V. Foreigners who have obtained the immigration status of “Inmigrante” (old FM2), who meet the characteristics “Rentista” (financier), investor, professional position of trust, scientific, technical, family, artist, sports athelete or similar, be equated to Temporary Resident status. Note that Inmigrante Rentista, Inmigrante Cientifico, etc have special legal meanings as, typically people who are not working, or are working as unpaid professionals.
These refined sub-categories and definitions make some sense, and offer some continuity with past categories and more definitions within the new law.
Special thanks to Alan from Merida and Ric Hoffman for their contributions and updates.
This article is meant as a public service announcement, not as legal advice, and this article will be updated as understandings and interpretations of the new law develop.
Please Continue to Make Comments and Replies to Help Keep This Information Current!
Disclaimer: This information is not meant as legal advice. It is for educational and informational purposes only. Government policies vary between States and offices, and Mexican Government officials have broad discretion in how they individually enforce policies, so, your personal experiences may vary. See a professional for advice on important issues.
* * * *
Feel free to copy while giving proper attribution: YucaLandia/Surviving Yucatan.
© Steven M. Fry
Read on, MacDuff.
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Thanks, Steve. Yours is one of the first, if not the first, serious look at how the new Mexican immigration law applies to the expatriate community. All the many press reports that I have seen to date (5/30/2011) have addressed aspects of the law’s great steps forward in handling current illegal immigration to Mexico, but have made no reference to the simplification of processes applying to us folks.
First, a general comment on the new law and its apparent change to the current rentista category of FM2. That category has meant, in practical terms, primarily someone living off foreign-sourced income who looks forward to being eligible to qualify for immigrant status upon completing x number of FM2 renewals (where x depends is 4 or as little as 2 if married to a Mexican national). So now, as an FM2 Rentista, will I and the many like me be reclassified as a temporary resident, as opposed to someone with a working FM2 category, who will be considered a “permanent resident”?
That is not necessarily how I read the new law. First of all, I do not see any provision in Temporary Resident being applicable to me. As an FM2 rentista I see my logical reclassification to be a Permanent resident, per Chapter 2, Article 54, Section IX.III:
“III. Que sean jubilados o pensionados que perciban de un gobierno extranjero o de organismos internacionales o de empresas particulares por servicios prestados en el exterior, un ingreso que les permita vivir en el país;”
Or, “III. Who are retired or pensioned and receiving, from a foreign government, international organization, or private business, financial support for services rendered outside Mexico, an income which permits them to live in the country.”
Article 52, VII, “Residentes temporal” (Temporary residents) simply has no appropriate category for pensioned expats.
However, Steve does point to a reading of the Transition implementation clause that would dump all of the retired and pensioned folks, etc., who have been categorized in the newly “old” FM2 status, nilly willy into the Temporary resident category. Sorry, but if that is what the law means, I see it as self-contradictory. It leaves me and other FM2 rentistas up in the air.
————–
Let me turn now to consider the meaning of “rentista,” as “financier” in the translation Steve provides of V is misleading. Also, I offer a substitute understanding of “caracteristicas” in this legal context.
But first let me repeat that clauses following Article 162 addresses transitory matters, that is, immediate implementation issues.
Let’s take a closer look at the translation provided in Steve’s very useful summary, which, however, could use (as he as requested) tweaking.
“V. Foreigners who have obtained the immigration status of “Inmigrante” (old FM2), who meet the characteristics “Rentista” (financier), investor, professional position of trust, scientific, technical, family, artist, sports athelete or similar, be equated to Temporary Resident status. Note that Inmigrante Rentista, Inmigrante Cientifico, etc have special legal meanings as, typically people who are not working, or are working as unpaid professionals.”
May I suggest that financier does not capture the meaning of “rentista”? Indeed, I can not think of a single English word that captures this Mexican immigration law category (as in Section 48 of the 1974 General Law of Population). (Yes, I know, online dictionaries do offer up “financier” as one meaning.)
Looking at Mexican legal precedent, a review of the 1974 law’s categories describes rentista as follows:
“a) Rentista: Son las personas que deciden ingresas a nuestro país para vivir de sus recursos traídos del extranjero, los intereses que produzca la inversión de su capital en certificados, títulos y bonos del estado o de las instituciones de crédito nacionales u otras que determine la Secretaría de Gobernación, dicha Secretaría podrá autorizarlos para que presten servicios como profesores, científicos o investigadores cuando estime que dichas actividades son benéficas para el país.
“El artículo 101 del reglamento señala que su ingreso mensual no podrá ser inferior a 400 días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal.”
http://html.rincondelvago.com/extranjeros-en-mexico.html (see: section 2.7.B.a).
I think we are stuck with translating the term as meaning “one who lives off foreign-sourced income as well as certain Interior Ministry-authorized experts .”
Between “professional” and “person of trust” there should be a comma. Note that a foreign professional needs to a credential issued by the Ministry of Education upon that Ministry’s recognition of the professional’s foreign credentials. As for a scientists, unlike a “rentista” who is a scientist, a scientist in that proper category is required to teach at least three Mexican nationals.
Here’s my alternative reading:
“V. Foreigners who have obtained the immigration status of “Inmigrante” (old FM2), who meet the following qualifications: “Rentista” — one living off foreign-sourced income or an Interior Ministry-authorized expert, investor, professional with a credential issued by the Ministry of Education, position of trust, scientist who teaches at least three Mexican nationals, technical expert, family member of an otherwise qualified FM2 holder, artist, sports athlete or similar, be equated to Temporary Resident status.” [The note that followed is Steve's, not in the Law.]
“V” above is listed under the Transition items (following Art. 162), as category or item SEXTO.V.” To me, on the face of it, it contradicts an element of the Permanent resident category, per Chapter 2, Article 52, Section IX.III (cited by me previously).
– Alan from Mérida
Hi Alan,
Yes, our current reading of the law specifically identifies FM2-Rentista / ” Inmigrante Rentista” as Temporary Residents under the new law, because INM uses common Spanish words in legally-defined ways that are different from their traditional every-day meanings. “Profesional Cientifico” and “Inmigrante Cientifico” have very different legal meanings to INM than they do in every-day usage. Both of these INM terms mean that this person cannot be remunerated (no pay) for their work under this category, while every-day Spanish would clearly mean that a professional (by definition) is one who is paid = the opposite of an amateur.
In “Government-Speak”, up is down, peace is war, war is peace, and yesterday’s firiends are today’s enemies.
One Mex. Gob. “pulse-point” that we might monitor for future clarifications and proof of promulgation of the new Regulaciones is . When INM updates these glossary pages to reflect the new law’s requirements and terminology, we’ll know for sure what “Residente Temporara; ” and “Residente Permanent” finally mean.
Good Stuff !
steve
Uh huh, okay. But then what is jubliado/pensionado in the Permanent resident category, per Chapter 2, Article 52, Section IX.III, if not rentistas — chopped liver?
Alan,
Good intention, but there is no Article 52. Sec. IX, III. …. Sec IX has no sub-category “III”.
There is a sub-category “III” to Article 54 (listed on the same page as Article 52 Sec. IX):
“Artículo 54. Se otorgará la condición de residente permanente al extranjero que se ubique en cualquiera de los siguientes supuestos: . . .
…
III. Que sean jubilados o pensionados que perciban de un gobierno extranjero o de organismos internacionales o de empresas particulares por servicios prestados en el exterior, un ingreso que les permita vivir en el país; ”
This addresses:
“Who are retirees or pensioners who are entitled to a foreign government or international agencies or private companies for services rendered abroad, an income that allows them to live in the country;
This could be interpreted as people and retirees who have “pensions”, receiving regular pension income payments, but not all “Inmigrante Rentistes” are pensioners under this interpretation. Which would mean that the pensioner type of “Inmigrante Rentista” could be elegible for Permanent Residency under the new law.
steve
my name is wanda and i would like to know that in sept i renew my fm2 status that i have obtained for almost 4 years.I am married to a mexican for the past 30 years and have been registed civil for those 5 years will i be able to obtain permenant residency this year.
wanda,
In theory, yes, you will be eligible for Permanent Residency. You are also eligible to apply for Mex. citizenship – and then carry 2 passports. Will the new regulations be written by then? There is no news on this point.
steve
As Steve said… Wanda is eligible for Mexican Citizenship…. and she should go for it . I{m married to a Mexican National (42 years), we were married in Puebla so I didnt need an Apostille for that… I had to get a current copy of my birth certificate (with an Apostille from the State where your Birth Certificate came from) … it has to be a copy dated two years or less, the same for the spouses birth certificate and marriage license.
I’ve been working as a translator/ intrepreter for the last six years… had to have an FM3 for 3 years, an FM2 for two years and then apply for the Acta de Naturalization…. note theres a catch 22 here… you have to have an FM2 that is at least 6 months away from expiring…this means your going to have to have another year on this immigration paper…
You’ll have to have 2 criminal background checks…one from the state and another Federal. It will take about 6 months to process this paperwork…. once you get it you will have to sign a paper saying you renounce any other citizenship… dont let this scare you… it’s just a technicallity so if you get in a legal situation you won’t start screaming..Ï’m an American Citizen… they will let you keep your American passport. If you go to the States you are a Mexican until you cross the Rio Grande…then show your American passport. Coming back it works in reverse… welcome to the life of a Duall National Amigo.
P. P.S. The USA gave me more headaches about papers than the Mexican side did…. I’m from Georgia and had to deal with redneck hillbillies who have been brainwashed into believing there is a terrorist under every rock. I took me a couple of dozen phone calls before I found someone without brain damage to send my papers to me.
I just want now to touch on two separate matters, the point system and the “what happens now” question.
First, as for the point system for applicants seeking permanent immigrant status faster than otherwise provided for, the eighth item among the Transitory or Transistional clauses grant Gobernacion (Interior Ministry) 180 days to issue implementing regulations, 180 days from the May 25, 2011 publication of the Law in the Official Daily.
Second point, the ninth such clause reads,
“NOVENO. Los trámites migratorios que se encuentren en proceso o pendientes de resolución a la fecha de entrada en vigor de la Ley de Migración, deberán concluirse de conformidad con las disposiciones vigentes al momento en que se iniciaron.”
Which I render as:
“NINTH. Immigration applications that are in process or pending resolution upon the effective date of the Migration Law [that is, May 25, 2011] will be resolved in conformity with the legal provisions current at the time the applications were initiated.”
Technically, my reading says if you go in to start a new application after May 25, you are under the new system. And I bet INM is not ready to implement that! As for renewals initiated after May 25, perhaps they could be interpreted as “pending resolution” though technically I would consider them to be under the terms of the new law.
Err… I copied the wrong reference, yes, of course, the section I was referring to in my May 30th 2:17pm query was from Art. 54, Sec. IX.III. And, in fact, in my original submission, I had quoted what you cite in your 2:35 pm reply.
Anyhow… will be fun to see what regulations Interior comes up with, and when they will be issued, that will govern what we encounter at our local friendly INM office.
My husband & I dropped off all of our paperwork at INM to obtain a new FM-2 on Wed. May 25th. We already completed 5 years on our FM-3. We still need to pay our fees and have pictures taken. Now with the new law can we change back to starting over on an FM-3? We would save $2000 pesos by not getting an FM-2.
Mary Ann in Ajijic
A few observations:
Your application was filed right on the day when the new law was officially published in the Diario Oficial, which in theory would mean that you are locked into your Inmigrante change of status application.
The new law clearly has NO FM2 nor does it have “No Inmigrante” (old FM3) nor “Ïnmigrante” categories. The 2 categories that could fit your situation in the future are Temporary Resident and Pernanent Resident.
Some immigration people think that your prior 4 years as an FM3 and 1 year as a “No Inmigrante” would meet the new Permanent Resident requirements for 4 prior years as a Temporary Resident. It seems that you applied just 1 day too early** to qualify for the new system, so you are locked in as an Inmigrante applicant, unless INM allows you to abandon your current Inmigrado application, and allows you to refile under one of the 2 new categories, preferably as a Permanent Resident.
Maybe an Immigration attorney who knows the new law and who also has contacts inside your local INM office can help? Or if your Spanish is solid, head over to your INM office and ask how they would handle things if you abandon your current application for change in status to Inmigrante, and then re-file an application for Residente Permanente under the new Transitorio regs. If that works, you would only pay one fee this year for Permanent Residency status. (?)
As we suspected, things will get messy for some people caught during the transition period.
steve
**Sometimes the “early bird” truly does get worms.
I’m about to file for my 2nd renewal (third year) of my Inmigrante (FM2) status. Previously I held an FM3 for 5 years. I have submitted my request online to Extender la estancia, Refrendo de Inmigrante, but haven’t yet appeared in the INM office to begin the process. Should I or can I refile in a different way to apply for Residente Permanente at this time?
Hi Howard,
Great question.
Under the old regulations, as long as you re-enter the country within 60 days of the expiration and then renewed within 30 days of your re-entry to the country, then it all works fine.
If you are worried that Mexican Immigration at the airport might hold you up, you could print page 11 from:
,
This is the current Immigration Manual, published on August 9, 2010, Diario Oficial, and Section 6.3 covers your situation:
6.3 If the foreigner is outside of the country at the expiration of their FM3 or FM2, they can solicit their renewal or referendum, whichever applies, within 30 days following their re-entrance, as long as they have not been absent from the country more time than the law allows.
6.3.1 In the case of the FM3 the absence cannot exceed the period signaled in the General Population Law or sixty days after its expiration.
This approach works fine, if you currently have the type of status that will get you what you want under the new Immigration law. If you want a status that gets you specifically into either Permanent or Temporary Residency status, you might want to file for your preferred status now (before the trip), and request a Permiso de Salida y Regreso from INM to leave the country. Applying now undder the old regs might give you the ultimate status you want, or you may want to wait until you return to apply under the bright & shiney new system? We don’t know enough about your personal circumstances and preferences to say which is best.
steve
Howard Feldstien wrote:
Steve,
Thanks for the detailed reply. Good information. I stopped into the local INM office today and they confirmed that I can wait until I get back to renew my FM2 inmigrante status, but didn’t seem to know much about the new Temporary or Permanent Resident status, which is not surprising. I guess I don’t see how I could file for Permanent Residency now if they don’t know anything about it yet. There isn’t such a choice on their online form. Any suggestions about how to file for that? I thought that when I return they may know more about those new stati(?) and I could thus apply then.
Howard
Howard,
You can’t file for the new Permanent Residency category yet, because INM offices have not trained their employees yet. They have up to 6 months to implement the changes, but they can act under the Transitorios section if they choose to. You can read Mexconnect – last entry on the thread – to see how a good choice today under the old system may or can lead to the status you prefer under the new law (next year?) if you file before your trip under the current system; see http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?post=164825;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;page=last;guest=38098334#last YucaLandia’s last post.
Are you a working FM2 inmigrante? It appears that they will be assigned as Permanent Residents under the new law, which means if you filed now, you would be given Permanent Resident status with next years filing = paying twice (this year and next year). If you wait until you return from the trip before filing, your local INM office may have begun implementing the new system, giving you Permanent Resident status this year = only one payment….
Are you a non-working (no lucrativa) FM2 Inmigrante? Rentista? (a category that lets you keep your foreign-plated vehicle now). If you want to keep the vehicle, take a route that leads to Temporary Residency for the best chance of keeping the car, though INM has not published anything official on this, but the current categories that allow foreign-plated vehicles now, are assigned to Temporary Residency under the current readings of the new law.
If you have 4 years of FM2 or FM3 completed, then if you can wait until INM starts the new procedures, you could likely get Permanent Residency for a single payment this year.
If you are the husband of Mexican Citizen, there’s just a 2 year requirement for Permanent Residency… So, waiting to file until after you return could save you a payment.
It’s all good, but you haven’t supplied enough personal information to sort out what category best fits your needs, desires, and possibilities.
Gotta love Governments, just when we figure things out, they change the rules,
steve
My current credencial expires on July 3rd, but I’ll be out of the country then, not returning until July 20th. I’m wondering if I can use the 60 day grace period for renewal if I’m out of the country. I leave on June 10th, 1 week into the 30 day renewal window. Any advice?
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I am moving to Merida at the end of July and shipping household goods. Will I still be able to apply for FM2/FM3 (whatever they are going to call it now) and get my visa so that I can get my household goods out of customs? This could present major problems for me.
Is there a way that FMM can be converted to FM3 while I am in Mexico with FMM.
Please let me know ASAP.
Thanks,
Suman
Suman,
Yes, go online and register with INM at the link and follow the instructions provided in http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/moving-to-mexico-fmm-fm2-or-fm3/ (INM link = http://www.inm.gob.mx/index.php/page/Solicitud_de_Estancia ).
After filling out the on-line application, you will be given a Pieza number – record it – and then accept the print option to print your personal information registered with INM – because the INM goes faster and smoother if you bring in that printed sheet with you. Take the sheet, your passport, pieza number, 3 months of bank statements, comprabante, etc into your INM office, and register your application to get the process started. Write back to tell us how it goes.
Best of Luck,
steve
I’m confused and in Year 1 of a FM3 Rentista issued in Jan 2011 of this year. Laminated card not the green booklet. Does any know how many days I am allowed out of the country in the 4 year period? I was told by the Consulate it was multipe entry but no info about time periods. Now I hear it’s only 180 days allowed out in the time. My father is sick and I have to keep coming and going. What to do?
There are no limits to how long you can be out of the country on an FM3/No Inmigrante, other than being back in time for renewal. The FM2/Inmigrante has restrictions on how long you can be out of the country, but since FM2′s are going away in a few months, even that restriction appears to be going by the wayside before the end of this year.
I am a FM3 holder under the old old regulations,I have to renew before November 11/11. When I renew I want to make it a working FM3 and have my CURP # to do so, does any of these new regulations apply to me?
Since you do not renew until November, INM will likely be using the rules of the New Law, which means no more FM3 (No Inmigrante). The closest category in the New Law would seem to be Residente Temporal. Take a look above at the characteristics of “Residente Temporal” and see what you think.
I just now read the first report on the internet about INM beginning to implement the New Law. The report from Mexconnect says:
“…a top immigration lawyer (says) that it is true that we can no longer change our “tourist” to “working” without leaving the country.
This shows that INM is beginning partial implementation of the New Law now, and that FM3 category will likely not exist by November.
steve
steve
Hi and thanks for all this information. I did not see the issue of those who are working towards citizenship which could be granted after 5 years on an FM2. Did that change?
Thanks
Cap Sparling
Cap,
In our reading and re-reading of the New Law, we did not see any specifications describing changes in the path to citizenship. The New Law does specify that the old Inmigrado status will be Residente Permanente, which might be an option for you, but Residente Permanente does not have the same rights as a citizen, e.g. you would still be liable to have a fidei comiso for property within the 50 km zone.
Since Mexican Citizenship applications are controlled by SRE, not INM, I think the “old” rules on official residency requirements still apply to qualify for citizenship. (5 years for typical ex-pats and 2 years for spouses of Mexican Citizens. This may be a good item for SRE &/or INM to clarify or by a reliable knowledgeable attorney as the implementation of the upcoming El Reglamento evolves. We mention “reliable” because we have reading information printed by some local Yucatecan “immigration” attorneys who have not read nor understood key parts of the New Law affecting ex-pats, so, things seem a bit up in the air right now.
Yet another item to be clarified and worked out in the upcoming Regulations.
If you choose Residente Permanente in the meantime and the old Inmigrado requirements & rights are carried over into the new Residente Permanente, it is worth noting that Inmigrados are prohibited from operating brothels or bars…
steve
The English word “rentier” seems to translate “rentista” rather well. It refers to someone who lives off investments, etc.
Conzag,
Good point.
When describing and using INM clauses, we’ve chosen to insert the Spanish legal terminology that INM specifically uses, since the Spanish legal terms often have more specific and important meanings than their generic English translations. e.g. Substituting “Immigrant” (a perfectly good English word) into translations of INM Regulations gives tons of confusion between Inmigrante, Inmigrado, and No Inmigrante. Since Yucalandia’s typical reader is an ex-pat interested in staying in Mexico for more than a weekend, they usually have at least a passing interest in using and leaning Spanish, so, using the proper Spanish legal terminology maintains accuracy and clarity without confusing people.
steve
Very valuable information, thank you.
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Thank you all for valuable information and am signing up right now to be kept advised. Had previously been told that we would have to go to Mex City for confirmation of no criminal record in application for citizenship. Any news on this?
Hey Anthony,
How long ago had you been told you have to get a clean bill of health from the police? The last time we heard that this requirement was used, was over 4 years ago. Did you hear this from an ex-pat or from a Mex. Gob. official?
steve
Hi Steve
This was from official at SRE, Tepic (we live Nayarit), he said we had to go to Tepic first Proc. Justico de l’estado de Nayarit and then also to Sec. Publica Federal, Mex City. This was November 2010, and the first any of us have heard of this procedure.
Anthony,
Wow….
We haven’t heard of this requirement from other States, but the experiences we’ve heard about were in dealing with INM, Immigration laws, and Immigration regulations. SRE governs citizenship/naturalization requirements, which are separate from INM requirements, and are not part of the New Immigration Law.
Are you applying for citizenship?
steve
Steve… Im applying for Naturalization and I had to get a local & a Federal background check ‘. Had to go to Mexico City for the Federal, Check adress on websearch…get there early. so you wont have to be another day. Theres an expiration date of 30 days Federal and 15 Local…
Anthony… I just got my Acta de Naturalization… I had to go to Mexico City for a Criminal Background Check This was the Federal Background Check), then a State Background Check also.
Yes, have had FM3 for 9 years and FM2 for 2 years this Oct. Will need house & pet sitter if have to go to Mex. and will do so Feb after wife has got her old age pass & go by bus. am told over 60 don’t need take test, just be able to speak Spanish. True?
Anthony,
I don’t know. It would be great if you could give us a reference for the “over 60″ exemption to taking the citizenship test. I have a close friend in his 70′s who is also married to a Mexicana, and he has been studying for the test. He’d be tickled pink to be able to only have to pass a Spanish speaking competency evaluation.
steve
Sorry for delay been doing research!! Let “tickled pink” (good ol Brit phrase!) be the order of the day… First off credit to bajainsider.com and rolleybrook.com, check them out. Then on to my research sre.gob.mx find where nationalisation laws are, dated 17 June 09, go to Capitulo III Art 15, 2nd par: ” personas mayores de sesente anos sera sufficiente que acrediten saber hablar espanol”. As your friend is married to Mexicana he should have no problema on this. Experience of neighbour indicates very basic knowledge, ie greetings, counting, general conversation. Frankly I believe anybody applying for citizenship should speak Spanish. From this site I answer another of my own Q, yes we need “not criminal record” from both Mex AND local Admin city, in our case, Tepic, based “upon where you live”. sheesh.
Thanks!
I passed the word along to the friend.
steve
For people who are unsure of Anthony’s comment on getting certified that applicants for citizenship have no criminal record:
“¿Cómo obtener la constancia de Antecedentes no Penales Federal para el trámite de Naturalización?
Respuesta: Le atenderá la Dirección de Normatividad y Control de la SPF, Órgano Administrativo Desconcentrado de la Secretaría de Seguridad Pública Federal que se encuentra ubicada en la Calle de Xola Nº 324 1er piso, Colonia del Valle, Delegación Benito Juárez, C P 03100, México, D F, Teléfono 56 82 94 94, extensión 606 y/o 607, de lunes a viernes. Entre División del Norte y Coyoacan.”
http://www.sre.gob.mx/index.php/tramites-y-servicios/nacionalidad-y-naturalizacion
English Google Translation:
How to get the record federal criminal background check for the processing of Naturalization?
Answer: We will respond to the Directorate of Standardization and Control of the SPF, Detached Administrative Office of the Secretary of Federal Public Security which is located on Calle Xola No. 324 1st Floor, Colonia del Valle, Delegación Benito Juárez, CP 03100, Mexico City, Phone 56 82 94 94, extension 606 and / or 607, Monday through Friday. Among the Northern Division and Coyoacan.
Check out the SRE website and INM for further information.
http://www.inm.gob.mx/static/marco_juridico/pdf/reglamento/Reg_LNac.pdf
Thanks Anthony for the tips & solid info.
If you’re over 6o you’re exempt from the test.
Rentier in English is directly from the French word and means a person of independent means, (that presumably lives off them). That would certainly cover those of us who have been living off our US retirement funds.
We need some help !!! We have a house in La paz, have had this place for six years … We did not get back to renew our fm-3 it can due in april. We has some family problems to take care of & did not go to La paz this winter ..Now we need to try to renew all the paper work & are not sure what we should do ???
Thank for any help.
Norm & Sue,
When do you intend to return to Mexico? Do you have a foreign-plated car registered under your old FM3 visa?
If you do not have a foreign-plated car registered under your old expired FM3, then you could simply apply for a new FM3 (currently called “No Inmigrante” visa). New FM3′s require more documentation and take a little more time than renewing an existing FM3. If you are returning to Mexico later than the next 4 months *or so?), INM could have you apply for the new “Residente Temporal” under the new law, but INM is not saying when they will begin implementing the new law. Realize that if INM begins implementing the new law by then, and you enter under a visitor’s visa, you will not be allowed to change residency status from visitor to Residente Temporal or Permanente without leaving Mexico first (as currently described in the new law). This means that it would be good for you to find out which law INM is using, just before your re-entry into Mexico: the old pre-May 25, 2011 law or the new law.
steve
Steve;;
Thank you very much,We are going to la paz in late October, pay our property tax & work on the yard.I am 68 & should not have any trouble getting citizenship? We have a blazer there with Mexico plates & I have a truck drivers license. Just need to know how to get all this going again ???
So we need to have a visitors visa to cross the border & go on to la paz & try to get all this done !!
If there is any more info for us please let us know, we have a gal there that can help us , But with all the new laws it will be a hard time to get all this taken care of .. Thanks ~~ Norm & Sue
Norm & Sue,
I’m not communicating well today.
I think you do not qualify for citizenship yet. You said you have had an FM3 visa, which does not qualify you for citizenship. 4 years of FM2/Inmigrante status is needed for typical ex-pats to qualify, or 2 years of FM2 as the spouse of a Mexican.
Since the Blazer has Mexican plates, it is fine to re-apply for a NEW FM3 (or “Residente Temporal” if INM has kicked-off the New Law).
Here’s another bogey in our communication: Under the New Law, if you enter under a Visitor Visa (Visitante), then as a Visitante, you can NOT apply to change status while in Mexico, You must leave Mexico to apply for “Residente Temporal“. If INM is using the Old Law when you re-enter, then you can use a Visitor Visa and then apply to change residency status.
steve
-
Hi-
I’ve been renewing my FM3 annually solely so I can keep my US-plated vehicle in Mexico. We are in the Puerto Vallarta area about 3-4 months each year. I am not worried about obtaining official residency status to exempt myself from capital gains tax on our property, mostly because I have no intention to sell anytime soon, and probably wouldn’t have much in gains anyway. Having to apply for and renew the FM3 or whatever it’s called now is becoming a lot of hassle and money. In April 2011 I got my new “No Immigrante” laminated card, which I understand must be renewed every year. My car is a 1997 Nissan Pathfinder that was originally built in Japan. I’ve heard many different answers to the question of “can I nationalize my car?” So with all the mess going on with Visas, if I nationalized my car so it had Mexican plates, I could just go back to having a regular tourist visa and not mess with all the other stuff. Is it possible to nationalize it, without driving it back out again first, and are they any disadvantages to doing so? Thanks,
Bill
Bill,
Unfortunately, I think that (nationalizing) ship never left the dock. Ex-pats with FM3′s/No Inmigrante status and FM2 Rentistas are allowed to keep one foreign-plated vehicle here, but you can only nationalize them when they are exactly 10 years old, and ONLY if they are NAFTA made vehicles (ruling out your Japanese made Nissan). There are rumors that the “10 year” part of the law./rule may be changed in the future, but for now, you can either update your No Inmigrante status yearly, or take the vehicle out of Mexico.
steve
Steve-
That’s kind of what I had always thought was the official answer too. Even if they drop the 10 year rule, chances are since my vehicle was made in Japan it’ll never be allowed to be imported. Thanks for your prompt reply.
Wow….sure is deep stuff. Lawyers will have a field day no doubt until things sort out. Can an investor be considered as an FM-2 rentista or is that separate?
Bill,
FM2′s won’t exist under the new law. The law has a potential internal conflict on the rentista issue: Rentistas who receive pension income qualify for Residente Permanente status, while under the Transitorios (Transition rules), Rentistas shall generally be categorized as Residente Temporal.
If you are asking about the old law (still being used until they shift to the new law), Yucalandia’s “Moving to Mexico: FMM, FM2, or FM3?” article describes the income/savings requirements for meeting FM2 Rentista requirements. http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/moving-to-mexico-fmm-fm2-or-fm3/
“…
Proof that you have sufficient income to support yourself
(and any dependents)
. (Some INM offices are requiring this, others: not.) This could be 3 months of bank or investment account statements, with your name on them, showing balances equivalent to 250 times (FM3) or 400 times (FM2) the official minimum wage in Yucatan ( $56.7 pesos/day for Zone C). SALARIOS MINIMOS This translates to 2011 minimum monthly income requirements for a single person: FM3 = $14,175 pesos & FM2 = $22,680 pesos. At current $11.80 MXN/USD exchange rates, it converts to $1,200 USD per month for an FM3, and $1,920 USD per month for an FM2. Each additional dependent increases the requirement by 50%. Some INM offices are approving reducing the financial requirements by ½ for FM2 applicants and their dependents, if you can show proof of home ownership in México (fideicomiso), but acceptance of this expemption is not univerally approved. (Remember, “TIM”: “This is México.”)”If we do not work in MX what reason is there to change from an FM3 (Residente Temporal to an FM2 (residente Permanente)?
Charles,
FM2 / Inmigrante / Residente Permanente offer several differences and benefits.
The differences between FM2′s and FM3′s under the old law are described in “Moving to Mexico: FMM, FM2, or FM3?”/. The differences between Residente Temporal and Residente Permanente under the new law are not yet fully determined. At a minimum, Residente Temporal is required to renew and pay for their visa every year and Residente Permanente only has to apply once and pay once. Residente Permanente also allows the holder to apply for citizenship and its benefits. Other differences will be known only after INM releases the El Reglamento (new regulations) based on the new law.
steve
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Thank You for the respose and also what would be the benifit of mex.citizenship would i not have to give up us and my retirement.
Wanda,
As long as your intent is to get Mexican citizenship and a Mexican passport, then the US Government is fine with American citizens carrying 2 passports and still receiving benefits. You use your Mexican passport to enter Mexico, and you use your US passport to enter the USA. As long as you do not file with the US Govt. to renounce your US citizenship, then it works fine. You might note that as a Mexican Citizen you are given all rights, but if you are then arrested in Mexico, then you are treated as a Mexican, with no protection or aid from the US consulate. The US Consuls typically provide no more aid than to provide contact information for an Mexican attorney, so, the actual ¨protection¨ you lose is practically fairly minor.
steve
Steve, I came here by way of your intelligent posts on Mexconnect. I appreciate your intensive research and non speculative approach to these topics. It’s very refreshing.
I am adding your blog to my Blogger Dashboard Reading List.
Many thanks.
Don Cuevas (AKA Anonimo)
Don Cuevas,
I too enjoy your Mexconnect posts.
Thanks for the props. We try hard to stick to the facts here, with just enough prose to keep it interesting.
I’m off check out your blog.
steve
3rd attempt to post…Q for MexmysticBob 16 Aug: what do you mean by expiration date Federal 30 days, local 15 days? Do you need to go to local first? What paperwork necessary there and Mex City? What fee? Thanks!
While the US government grapples with immigration reform and some states ramp up their anti-immigration laws, crossing the border from Mexico into the United States has become an extensive process. However, the added security has created an unexpected result. According to the New York Times, people crossing the border from the US into Mexico also face similar scrutiny.
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I’m sure the effort afforded as well as the shared information are helpful to those who have been ‘in the system’, but sadly I saw too little (if any at all) plain English with respect to new law and those considering retiring to Mexico; eg; links to 200 words or less explaining where to start and what the law requires for US citizens to say, move to Mexico and expect to stay there.
Seems someone should post this…http://rollybrook.com/how_to_move_to_mexico.htm#visa
wguru2,
Fortunately, the web is a big place, with plenty of room for all. Rolly Brook has offered very good information over the years. His style is different from ours, and there are a very few issues where he takes a different opinion from ours. Rolly Brook posts information from many many sources around Mexico, making him a valuable resource. Rolly also publishes books on these things, which has caused him to occasionally shift focus away from keeping his website updated, which prompted us to start Yucalandia during one of the periods that he was busy writing, publishing, and marketing a book on moving to Mexico. Unfortunately, the Mexican government has been frequently changing the laws affecting expats, which can make information published in hard-copy books on Mexico out of date, not long after being published. We understand that Rolly has had a new book in the works, and that he just is waiting for INM to publish their new Regulations before he goes to press with the changes. Overall: Rolly has a good site !
steve
I intend to retire soon in Merida. I usually enter Mexico on tourist visa. My wife, Mexican own a house in Mrida and we hold a car which I have to transfer every six month to Belize and back. I intend to bring a second car when I move. What are my options.
Meir
Hi Meir,
Are you living in Merida or Mexico now? If you change to a No Inmigrante/FM3 RENTISTA visa or an Inmigrante/FM2 RENTISTA visa soon, then you can transfer the Temporary Import on one vehicle over from your current Tourist/Visitor visa onto your new FM3 or FM2.** If you do not apply for an FM2 or FM3 soon, INM will be changing the immigration rules and categories over to a new system on or before Nov. 25.
If you choose to wait, the new immigration system will have different categories, replacing the old Inmigrante, FM2, FM3, & Inmigrado, with either the new Residente Temporal or Residente Permanente categories. None of us know the new rules for Temporary Import permit cars under the new system.
If you file for No Inmigrante RENTISTA status (now) before the rule change, you would have at least one year of no traveling to Belize (and possibly 5 years). Most experts expect that the new Residente Temporal will have some sub-category or exemption to allow Caracteristica: RENTISTA visa holder to keep one car here for 5 years under a Temporary Import permit from Aduana. (Rentista = rentier = someone who lives off their investments or pension, etc.).
Alternative: If you choose to use your special status as the spouse of Mexican citizen to:
1. get either Residente Permanente status under the new upcoming rules or
2. become a naturalized Mexican citizen, holding both US and Mexican passports, then
you might not be allowed to to keep a foreign-plated car here under a Temporary Import permit. That might force you to take the vehicle(s) to Belize to be sold.
You or your wife could also choose to get a Permanent Import permit on one vehicle per person, (nationalizing it), if the vehicle is 10 years old (model years running from Nov.1 – Oct. 31 manufacturing date), or you could check out permanently importing the vehicles while paying heavy taxes = but most people find the taxes so high that it is cheaper to sell their foreign car outside Mexico, and buy vehicles here.
steve
** The choice of FM2 vs FM3 is affected by various factors beyond the scope of a simple reply. Please see our article on FM2s and FM3s at: http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/moving-to-mexico-fmm-fm2-or-fm3/ . You might also want to read our article on the New Immigration Law at: http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/new-immigration-law-published-for-mexico-the-article/ . e.g. If you don’t want to have to go through 5 years of FM3 or 5 years of FM2, then as the spouse of a Mexican you have the right to apply for Mexican Citizenship after only 2 years of FM2 (Inmigrante).
-
I have already resided in mexico for two years without a visa with my now wife who is a mexican citizen we have been married for a month now, now I would like to recieve a permanent residence status eventually becoming a mexican citizen aswell. Is it possible without having to be in mexico for another two years under the mexican marriage naturalization rules? any other information would help
Devin,
There are several basic requirements for naturalization as a spouse of Mexican citizen:
– You need a marriage that is legally recognized by the Mexican Government. Were you legally married by your Registro Civil? …. Mexican church weddings are not legal, and are not recognized.
– You need to complete 2 years as a No inmigrante Familiar spouse of Mexican citizen.
Since you are currently an illegal alien, I am unsure of all of your options. You could leave Mexico and re-enter under a visitor’s visa. If your marriage is legal, then you could apply for a No inmigrante Familiar with INM. After 2 years as a No inmigrante Familiar , you could apply for naturalization.
I mention the need for a legal marriage, because most Registro Civiles across Mexico require prior INM approval before they allow marriages. Since you are here without INM approval, it would seem that your marriage is also not legal? There’s a good thread on Mexconnect the naturalization process at: http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?post=169936;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread
Give a shout back about how this works out,
steve
I’m confused. I am married to a Mexican for 13 years and have 4 Mexican born kids (I brought them all to the states over 10 years ago). I currently have an FM3 which expires in Aug. of 2012 and go back and forth to the states. I want citizenship and a Mexican passport in the fastest, least expensive way possible but mostly the fastest.
When I asked at the INM in San Luis Potosi last year at the time of obtaining the FM3 I was told 1) I must get an FM3 before I could get an FM2 and I had to have the FM2 for 5 years before I could ask to be nationalized. The woman handing out the papers would accept no other scenario.
I am now coming up on time to renew. I think what the lady (bureaucrat) told me is a crock but I don’t know how to proceed. Here you indicate that I need to ask for “No Inmigrante Familiar” but elsewhere I understood that I should ask for “Inmigrante Fimaliar”. The latter because it is like the FM2 seems more likely to be correct to me though I would prefer that my time with the current FM3 would count toward the 2 years needed.
Any help to clear this up would be appreciated as I would like to be armed with an understanding of the law the next time I encounter the lady at INM.
Thanks in advance,
Woody,
You were sold a bum steer by your previous INM clerk – unless the San Luis Potosi office is not following the federal rules. The INM handbook describes that you can file for an “FM2″ Inmigrante Familiar without ever having an FM3. Inmigrante Familiar holders who are legally married to Mexican citizens – which means a marriage registered and recognized by a Mexican Registro Civil – are allowed to apply for citizenship after completing 2 years of the Inmigrante Familiar . If your local INM counterperson does not agree with this rule, then I suggest talking with a supervisor, or hire a reliable known immigration attorney who knows how to work with your local INM office.
All the best,
steve
Are common law relationships between a mexican and non-mexican recognized in order to shorten the time period for obtaining naturalization? Is there any way of registering, in some official way, a common law relationship?
Pat,
I think you are referring to an expat Concubina or Concubino who has lived with a Mexican citizen. We don’t know the specific documents or proofs that the Mexican govt. requires to prove the Concubina’s or Concubino’s status, but it is a specific category with special rights. Since the heads of each INM office have some discretion in their choices of what is needed to meet the INM law’s requirements, I think you should check with your local INM office to find out all their office’s requirements.
steve
please keep me informed of changes of marriage to Mexican citizens cause i want my residency in Mexico so i can be with the man i love there !
Tina,
Me too.
Though mi cariña se llama Maria.
steve
Your info is very useful to me. Many thanks.
Phillip,
Thank you for the kind words.
steve
Hi Steve,
I lived in Mexico 2005-7 and had an FM3. It has now expired, of course. Since we are moving back next year I will need a new visa de residente. I am still confused about where one acquires the visa. My reading tells me that I should fill out the formato basico online (I have done this) and go to a Mexican consulate in the U.S. for the visa, then register it in the Mexican town where one takes residence. On the other hand, my friends in San Miguel take their FMM to INM and do it all there. The Mexican Consulate in Chicago has such a general form for rentista that I hesitate to apply there, because they are not using any of the new terminology for visas. They have a form in English that just says “if you want to retire in Mexico,” fill out this form. Who knows what category they would put you in. My wife of 50 years is Mexican, so I would seem to qualify for No Inmigrante Familiar, or Residente Permanente, or Residente Temporal. Can you help? Many thanks. Phil
Phil,
You can decide whether to start the INM process either here or there. Some INM agents propose that spouses of Mexicans apply for FM2/Inmigrante visas, because you qualify to apply for citizenship after just 2 years and you qualify for applying for Inmigrado after 4.
All of these categories may soon go away, and the new categories of Residente Permanente or Residente Temporal when the new Reglamento de INM is issued. The head of INM announced that the Reglamento would be issued in late November. The 6 month limit for issuing the new Reglamento is due out in 2 days.
steve
There was an Immigration meeting here in Pto Vallarta last week. Basically all laws are the same, just drop FM3 use No Inmigrante, drop FM2, use Inmigrante. Once held Inmigrante 5 years & gone thru (laborious) process & accepted for citizenship,you are then Inmigrado. You cannot apply for ANY status outside of Mexico – except you CAN start it online, it has to be processed & finalised at an INM office in Mexico. ALL forms are in Spanish, so the English one you mention will not be acceptable. You should ask your local office for assistance in your particular category. Married 50 years! You could have held citizenship eons ago! Remember if your address or status (married,retired etc) changes you must notify your local office or you will pay a fine.
Thanks. This was very helpful. Of those 50 years of marital bliss, only two were spent as a resident of Mexico. Now it seems that Mexico is actually encouraging rentistas to apply for citizenship. Whichever path is the one of the least hassle and paperwork is the one which attracts me.
I haven’t seen comments on this issue. My category (2005-2007) was FM3 Rentista. Does one ever get credit for time served if the visa lapses? Does one just start afresh with INM? Could I do an end run around INM and just apply for citizenship since I have been married to a Mexican for 50 years and our two sons were born there? We will be spending all of January in SMA and SLP, and having connections can help in those towns. I may be too early for Inmigrante Permanente, but I wonder what other options there will be.
I did the Acquisition of a condo in Vallarta and also made the request and received my FM3 card, since I am a painter, I would like to use my work legally with galleries or other … etc, by doing so would result in entries pesos as much for me and for those who sell, (galleries and other) then the question is, do I have requested a special status (artist) as some have mentioned, or have added to my map FM3 something, or simply apply for a FM2, but since it’s only been a month since I have my FM3, should I wait 5 years ?????
Ricardo,
Read our article that addresses these issues at: http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/moving-to-mexico-fmm-fm2-or-fm3/ . If your goal is to live here permanently, then the fastest route to Residente Permanente would seem to be having an Inmigrante/FM2, especially if you do not have a working FM3 and need to change immigration permit status.
If you are permitted to work, and are not planning to be a permanent resident, I would complete your first year of your No Inmigrante/FM3. There will be an entirely new process and new categories next year. I would make my choice between the new Residente Temporal and Residente Permanente based on which of their options fit your situation: likely Residente Temporal. Contact an accountant about registering with Hacienda and paying taxes. If you do not currently have a working FM3, you would need to get a Residente Temporal type of permit that allows you to work.
steve
We are Canadians living in Mexico. We just got our FM2, it says Inmigrante, Rentista, El extranjero inmigrante reside en Mexico.Now, we want to sell our house and buy a house in Bahias de Huatulco,Oxaca. My question is, do we have to have a bank trustee? I mean do we not get a DEED on a house for ourseleves? If the Deed is in possion of the Bank, then what happens if we die? We would put our daughter as beneficiary. She lives in Canada. Can she sell the house without paying Capital Gain? or is it better to have a Testament. All these laws are so tricky and complicated. We want to do things right. We would sell our house here and then buy another one there. The transaction would be cash payment, no financing. I would think that in case we shouldn’t have to have a trustee? Please advise. Thank you, ria
Hi Raija,
Is your potential house in Bahias de Huatulco, Oxaca, within the 50km exclusion zone? (A coastal or border area where only Mexican citizens can own property.) If so, then your home could be owned using either a fideicomiso or by a corporation. The advantages and disadvantages of either vehicle are best described by your Notario. Your Notario can also tell you if he/she is willing to approve any future homeowner gains tax exemptions for the house as your primary residence. Many Notarios do not approve this exemption for FM2′s or FM3′s – only Inmigrados, and you would also need to meet other requirements to try to qualify for the exemption. See our article on Capital Gains Taxes on Mexican Properties at: http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/living-in-yucatan-mexico/capital-gains-taxes-on-mexican-properties/ e.g. The property cannot be used for income generating purposes within the 5 year residency period.
The Notario can also explain how things work if you die.
All the best to you,
steve
Does anyone know how the new law will effect property tax issues? Currently you need a FM2
to qualify for certain levels of property tax exclusion. Does the new catagories have those elements within the classifications? Thanks
Brian in SMA
Hi Brian,
There are no hard and fast national rules or law on which immigration status/category qualifies one as a permanent resident for determining whether the property owner qualifies for the home owner’s exemption. This choice is left up to the individual Notarios - who are personally financially liable for approving this claim. Many Notarios do not accept Inmigrante/FM2′s claim for the exemption. Many Notarios do not even accept Inmigrado‘s claims for the exemption, unless the Inmigrado has applied for citizenship.
Since the Notarios of each State have the slightly different responsibilities on how to decide who qualifies and who does not qualify, I think it will take some time to sort out whether a particular region/State’s Notarios take liberal or conservative positions on who qualifies. Some Notarios may choose to consider Residente Permanente, while others may award the exemption only to naturalized citizens. I would be sure to have my personal Notario give his approval in writing, before making any real estate deals.
steve
Good work on investigating this. I am excited about the new changes, I was starting to get discouraged by the lack of a “Reglamento”.
A few years ago, Felipe Calderon in one of his many speeches on immigration said that he wanted to reform the system so that foreigners didn’t have to renew their visas every year. I am hoping that may be the case with “Temporary Residents”, since the wording in the law doesn’t mention that the document will have to be renewed every year as it does in the current “Ley de Población”.
Exciting!
I stumbled upon all this great info while trying to get through to Mexican Consulate in S.F. CA.
I’m on my 6th, FM3 renewal and don’t want it any longer. Nor do I want an FM2. It is costing too
much time and money, with no actual benefits. I was looking for a form letter to rescind my FM3.
Am I going to have to go 1 more time, at renewal date and take care of this, or is there another way?
I for one am glad to see these changes.
Paul,
There are a few Mexican lawyers who are interpreting provisions of the new INM law to allow INM to issue a 5 year version of the new Residente Temporal: pay once to get the immigration permission of Temporal Residente status, and then use it for 5 years. Will this happen? Apparently, it depends on INM – so, you might want to wait for the Reglamento to be issued and interpreted and implemented to decide what path is best for your situation.
steve
Hi Paul,
I’ve done this before. I turned in an expired FM3 visa to an INM (Immigration) office in Mexico and exited the country with a FMM, but you can just go down to the Mexican Consulate in S.F. and turn in your FM3, saying that you now live in the U.S. Don’t just throw it away or file it away, or you might have trouble entering Mexico in the future.
So Steve, based on your update (Dec 22)….How exactly will one apply for/receive the new FMx? Temporary resident status? If you come in on a visitante permit, and then have to exit to apply for a different type of permit…. can you only apply for the FMx’s at the border towns? So then you have to hang out at the border towns to get them?
Or do you have to get them thru a US consulate? This is muy importante to me because I have sold my house and hope to move at the end of January… I was planning to enter on the old FMM, then apply for FM3 in San Miguel.
I was also thinking of going to Juarez and applying for FMx there… is that possible even tho I will be living in San Miguel (I have rented a place and have an address there)?
Thanks for any clarity you may be able to provide… I know there are a lot of unknowns now…but would appreciate you take on this.
I need an FMx in order to bring my household goods into Mexico… hopefully when I go own there at end of Jan… so I don’t have to unload them and store them on the US side and then load them up again to go to SMA.
Hi Carol,
Since none of us know what exactly will be happening either on the local, regional or national levels this coming week, I think it’s best to wait at least one week before making any choices. There are some reports by the Mexican government – listed on the SEGOB website that they realized that are not ready to start the new system on Jan. 2, 2012 – and that they will delay implementation for several months – but that page was taken down…
steve
hi,I´m not American.I am European.But since American lax laws are the worst,it can only be better for me whatever you answer:I have an Fm3 for about 6 years as non inmigrante visitante.I have to show that I am living from my own income with a bankaccount in Europe that´s all being called “rentista”. Fine. What about the taxes ?When do we non-Mexicans have to be “dado de alta en la hacienda?” When do we have to file tax returns all the same if we work here or not? Does the Fm2 include the obligation to be registered at the Hacienda in Mexico? When and why when you are
n o t working here,do we have to pay or declare what we earn and have at the Hacienda=dado de alta? Or can we just stay here as long as we want without ever having to pay taxes on interests earned on our bankaccounts outside of Mexico?Thanks for the information,I am not giving my name since it is dangerous & they stole my dates already,I am using another email,fr
francisco,
First, we are not experts in taxes, and can only speak to our personal experiences as a US citizen and his Mexicana esposa: USA and Mexico have a tax treaty, which may make things different than for Europeans. Our tax treaty has things set up so that the expat pays US taxes on their US earnings, Mexican taxes on Mexican earnings, and that the individuals then calculate the taxes on total world income, then any tax paid in one country is credited against their taxes owed on total worldwide earnings. As a rentista (living off investment or pension income), you would not have income from working in Mexico, so, in our crude understanding, you would not owe taxes. Our Mexican accountant explained that in our situation, no taxes were owed by me in Mexico, unless I started working for pay here.
steve
sorry t a x laws,not lax laws
As we are waiting for the implementing regulations to be promulgated, this thought has occurred to me: Assuming that holders of an Inmigrante Rentista (the old FM2) visa might not be automatically qualified as a new Residente Permanente, but are reclassified as a Residente Temporal, is there any indication that our time on the FM2/Inmigrante Rentista visas might count towards the four years required as a Residente Temporal before qualifying for the Residente Permanente?
And secondly, has anyone become aware of how the Points System may work, and if it could be used to reduce the amount of time as a Residente Temporal to qualify for the Residente Permanente visa if not totally replacing that four-year period on the R.T.?
Marc,
Excellent Questions!
So good that many others have asked them, around the internet, but there are no definite answers published yet.
It would be reasonable to assume that previous years on an FM2 would be considered when qualifying for a Residente Permanente, but Mexican bureaucratic systems are well known for having great and widely varying discretion in how they implement new and changing regulations. No word on ¨Points, other than public statements that there will be a Points system….
steve
I have no answers, but I can say that on Jan. 11th I received a Inmigrante Rentista visa from the INM office in San Luis Potosi, valid for one year. They are still using the old terms FM2, which does not appear on the visa. I asked for a list of rules and they just shrugged their shoulders, but they did know that on this visa one can have a US-plated vehicle in Mexico. Otherwise the process was efficient, friendly, and not irksome. I still don’t know if the old rules about restrictions on the amount of time that one can be out of the country still apply.
Hi Phillip,
Thanks for the update.
Across Mexico, expats and abogados continue to report that INM continues to use the old terminology (FM2 and FM3), and to follow the “old” rules and regulations for immigration permits. Our Merida INM officers said last week that they will continue to follow the “old” / current rules until they receive the final version of the Reglamento for the May 25, 2011 “New” INM law. Reports from our local INM officers fit several Mexican immigration attys. reports that their local officials are saying it will likely be “months” until the new Reglamento is written and issued. Until then, the 18 month restriction for Inmigrante (FM2s) being outside Mexico still applies.
steve
We don’t need to renew our visas until August – so I’m sure there will be something in place by then – but was hoping there might be some insight, particularly about the points system (that darned graduate degree should be of some use, eh?) if they allow us to use points for partially qualifying for the Residente Permanente.
Guess I’ll wait (not-so) patiently for news and monitor Yucalandia for news as it happens!
Marc
Can anyone tell me how much it has cost to get citizenship to date? Local abogado said USD $4,000 plus Mexi charges. Somebody said even doing it yourself was same cost! Thanks.
I just received my Acta de Naturalizacion and an IFE Voters Card..(in Tlaxcala).. Depending on how you look at it… I already had gone through 3 years of an FM3 and 3 years of an FM2 which cost me About $300 dollars a year not counting transportation trips to Mexico City, Copies, etc., So lets say about $2000 dollars. I want mention the Stress factor which I received from both sides of the border. Then I applied for the Acta de Naturalization .. Cost $120 dollars… Fotos, etc. in all over that period of time it probably cost me a total of $2500 dollars… Also I had to prove I was able to support myself in Mexico and get a tax number and pay the taxes on my earnings.
The fact that I was married to a National and had 2 children born in Mexico helped shorten things a little. I did this ALL on my own without the help of a Lawyer. I think if you get a lawyer you are rolling dice, if you get an honest one it might help some but if you get a crook he’ll bleed you. SRE will give you all the info you need.
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Hola ….I have a FM3 ,had the green book then renewed last year and i have the card .
I thought i was allowed to renew 30 days before your renewal date that is on the card but i was said that i can start my renewal 60 days before my renewal date is this correct ?
This would be great my renewal date is April 18th so can i start Feb 18th ?
My place i go to is close to Chetumal and same distance to the Belize Boarder.
Sally,
Everything we have read from INM says to start the process within 30 days before the permit’s expiration date. Some INM offices do allow people to make special applications for an early renewal, but then the applicant (you) forfeit the remaining time left on your current visa. This means that they might allow you to make a special application several months early, but then the renewed visa has an earlier expiration date. e.g. If your visa expires on May 15, and you apply to change it on Feb. 1, and INM issues the new FM3 on Feb. 15, INM could assign you a renewed FM3 with an expiration date between Feb. 1 and Feb 15 – sacrificing 3 months of your previous visa.
Expats with FM2s or FM3 who are not able to be in Mexico when their visa expires will take this route – to attempt to shift their expiration date to a new date that fits their travel plans, while sacrificing some $$$.
Hint: it sounds like someone told you just part of the story?
steve
I was wondering, I am a missionary who came to Juarez, Mexico from the USA about 3 months ago. I was told I need a lawyer to get me tax forms, I’m assuming FM-2 or FM-3, to pay Mexican taxes. I’m only planning on being here 2 years at the very most. I don’t receive any income or goods here in Mexico. All I’m doing in humanitarian type work. Can I just use the tourist visa or is there other suggestions? Thanks
Trevor,
If you are working here, you should have a “working FM2″ or a “working FM3″. Contact an accountant to find out what tax filings are needed – or contact your local Hacienda office for additional guidance.
steve
First I would like to say what a pain. I had to make it a little more difficult as I want to do some hobby type carpenter work as retirement in mexico (or here) does not mean I can sit still. My problem is I do not want to start a mexican corporation as I have had enough tax stuff to last a lifetime. Will be moving to cozumel in november and what I want to do is get an FM# residence visa so that I can apply for permission to engage in lucrative activites. I believe the Residente Permanente covers working immigrants under the right top work. I guess I do not mind paying taxes its just that a corp has to file monthly taxes and you need an accountant always for that.
Anyway do know of any way to work self employed there on a part time basis without corp forming. Hope this is not a tax question
Hi Richard,
Yes, talk with a good accountant who knows both immigration and tax laws. I had an FM3 that allowed me to work – with an account set up with Hacienda. The account was set up by an accountant. I had the choice of personally filing monthly with Hacienda or on a per project basis. The accountant can make the filings with Hacienda, or you can do them online yourself. There currently is no Residente Permanente yet, and INM officials have said that it is several months out from now. Have you completed 4 years of an FM2 – to allow you to qualify for the new Residente Permanente?
steve
I wanted to sell my art work and got permission without forming a corp. It is for ‘smallish’ earnings, so that is the approach to take, I think. I am trying to remember the name of it. Ask around. Maybe you want to use your carpentry as art? So you have to show some pictures of little wooden things you make. Then get permission and i doubt anyone will ever run out to see what kind of carpentry you do later. good luck, and don’t sweat it!
Thank’s for the responses. We have not even moved there yet. Cozumel is kind of a small area to escape notice but we will try. I think I have heard something about the art idea and that will probably not work for me. We will be starting out with an FM3 when we go in November and see what develops.
I like the idea of setting up an account with Hacienda and paying on a pay as you go basis as I really do not want to do a hell of allot anyway.
Steve do you operate under an FM2 or do you think I can do work with an FM3?
Hi! I am an English Nurse / Teacher with a Canadian parttner, who is a carpenter / builder .
We are in our 50s . I have a job offer in Puerto Vallarta, and the company representative says he can do the FM forms with IMN when I get there in April. Is this right ?
I had a hard time when I returned to Canada at POE Vancouver , My Visitor status was current in Canada but was waiting for an LMO prior to a Work Permit ( filed in Sept 2011 and was still waiting in Dec2011 ).I now cannot return to Canada until after Dec 2011 .
We therefore would like to live in P/V as temporary residents whilst working .
My partner would like to work as a carpenter / builder for periods of time and I hope to stay for 6 months initially, from April .
We are co habitee partners in Canada and at present I am living in England visiting family here .
Any suggestions as to the best way forward ?
Many Thanks,
Hilary & Vern
Correction ;- After December 2012!
Hi Hilary,
You and your partner can come in as tourists on FMMs, and then apply for working No Inmigrante (FM3) permits while you are here.
steve
Hi Steve
I receive the various Qs and As, thank you, but am wondering if all the new Immigration regs have in fact now been made official and if so, do you have them in English? All I can see when I look at this site are just the previous surmisings. Many thanks!
Hi Anthony,
There is no word yet from INM on when they will implement the new law. Some regional INM officials have hinted at June, 2012 – but we suspect those are just guesses.
steve
Hello Steve
Not sure if i read here or somewhere…. that in the new laws and rules for Mexico they are going to change renewals for FM3 to every five years instead of the yearly renewal . Have you any updated info on this ?
Thank you Sally
Hello Sally,
There are several lawyers who read the base text of the new INM law to allow up to 5 year (total on one permit) renewals – and one INM regional official reported different costs for 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 year rate schedules for Residente Temporal permits – but none of this has been formally or officially confirmed. We’re still waiting for INM to issue the Reguladora for the new law.
steve
Hi.
I’m getting married to a Mexican citizen in a few months from now. I’m from a different country.
I don’t have independant income. Do they ask for a criminal record from my own home country? ( I have zero criminal convictions) And can you see any problems for me living in Mexico from a legal standpoint? I want to live there permanently with my bride. I assume this will be an fm2 visa.
I wonder if they will change me over to the new visa if the law changes after I get an fm2. Thanks for all your information, it’s great.
Jake,
Each Mexican State has its own Registro Civil offices who set their own requirements for what is needed to marry a Mexican. Have your prospective bride go to her Registro Civil office to get a list of their requirements. e.g. Our Registro Civil office in Merida requires that the foreigner supply a Certification of Singlehood (a document from your home government proving that you are single). Also have her check with her local INM office as to what proofs/requirements they need. Each regional INM office has the discretion to ask for different documentation.
In the past, some INM offices required proof that the applicant had no criminal record in their home country, but the only time we have heard of this requirement occurring recently was with applications made in the USA through Mexican Consulates.
All the Best,
steve
I am Working with company from last 1 year with FM3,If i want to change my employer, as per the old law FM3 holder can not change Employer,Is it same for new law
RG,
The Reglamentos for the new law have not been issued yet, so, no one knows the details yet.
steve
I was on an FM2 and was told I could change jobs but had to give at least a one month notice.
Excellent overview of the new laws. I’ll look forward to email updates as the new laws are implemented.
Thanks for doing all the hard work.
[quote] QUOTE: yucalandia says: January 13, 2012 at 7:44 am
Hi Phillip, Thanks for the update. Across Mexico, expats and abogados continue to report that INM continues to use the old terminology (FM2 and FM3), and to follow the “old” rules and regulations for immigration permits. Our Merida INM officers said last week that they will continue to follow the “old” / current rules until they receive the final version of the Reglamento for the May 25, 2011 “New” INM law. Reports from our local INM officers fit several Mexican immigration attys. reports that their local officials are saying it will likely be “months” until the new Reglamento is written and issued. [b] Until then, the 18 month restriction for Inmigrante (FM2s) being outside Mexico still applies.[/b] steve [/quote]
I’m confused – I thought you are allowed to be out of the country for a aggregate total of 180 days in 5 years. I am assuming this was a typo? Gracias.
J_CozDiver,
The “180 day” restriction is the maximum time (and typical time) that INM gives for FMM expiration dates. The 18 month limit on aggregate out-of-the-country time on an Inmigrante visa (FM2) has been in place as long as we know.
steve
On Feb. 5th I asked an INM officer in MEX airport about this time restriction and she said that it did not apply any more to FM2s. Entering Mexico again on April 10th the INM officer in Laredo was interested in when I had left (Feb. 5th). Depends on who you ask, I suppose, but I trust the young lady who said that exit restrictions no longer apply
I have been an FM3 holder since August 2011 and no longer live nor intend to live in Mexico. Is there anything I need to do to avoid future problems with entry as a tourist?
Hugh,
Leave Mexico before your FM3 expires, and bring your passport and request an FMM when you return.
steve
Kind of off topic here but as we were in Cozumel the last two weeks we were able to go by customs and ask them directly about moving household stuff there. We were told that only an empty car was allowed to enter with a tourist visa only. Rolly is of the opinion that we can move a car and trailer full of household goods there with a tourist visa and I cannot see how this is a problem.Everybody else says you have to have an FM3 to bring your stuff.
I know you cannot apply logic to allot of things that go on in Mexico but it seems to me like if you are a first time visitor to mexico and are wanting to retire and move there to say Merida or somewhere you would not have been there yet and could not therefore have an FM3 in your possession.I guess my question is this, Can we cross the border, get a tourist visa and move some possessions to Mexico in a suv and a 4×8 trailer?
Hi richard,
Is there any chance that the Aduana person in Cozumel thought you were bringing the car in by ship? Cars arriving by ship must be empty… Cozumel is so far from any land border, I suspect that their Aduana personnel may not know the details for land crossings.
Historically, driving across the border with a load of household goods produces a dice-roll event – regardless of whether your have an FMM (tourist permit) or an FM3.
~ Some people are waved through with their vehicles crammed with stuff – especially the ones with big dogs riding along.
~ A few get stopped and given a quick once over – to look for drugs, guns, medicines, or other contraband – and get waved through. It can help a ton to have an Excel spreadsheet printout of every single thing in your load, with the prices (from E-bay?) and any applicable serial numbers listed (like a menaje de casa).
~ A very few people driving in get waved to the side, get thoroughly inspected, and have to pay duties on contents of the load (minus the personal deductions).
I most recently entered Mexico with friends with a 16′ dual axle fully enclosed trailer – the trailer was roughly half full… After a cursory inspection for contraband – opening a few boxes as they requested – and then waved through with no charges… Can any of us predict how it will go for you? lo no se… 15% duty on stuff, if they decide to apply it.
If you are (former?) law enforcement, or a lawyer, or a doctor, consider politely introducing yourself as such, (in a professional way), and many many times you may find they stand up a bit straighter and treat you very well. One lawyer friend finds that they even get chatty when they find out, and they ask if they can get any legal help with getting themselves or family members into the States.
All the best,
steve